That's right, it depends on the priorities we set as a society for this kind of thing. Not just living longer, but extending the enjoyable and productive period of a person's life. Of course, I'm in the minority (otherwise I wouldn't have gotten modded into oblivion while the guy who says that he doesn't want to have an impact on the world is praised and congratulated) but I still firmly believe it's worthwhile.
What I don't get is why many people are so violently opposed to this. I'm not even talking about transhumanism or anything as controversial as that, just preventing "old" people from degenerating.
As a med student I saw so many people wasting away in retirement homes, many of them were not even that old. With advances in biotech, I hope we'll give my generation a much more active and empowered existence when we come into this age group.
What I don't get is why many people are so violently opposed to this. I'm not even talking about transhumanism or anything as controversial as that, just preventing "old" people from degenerating.
I think it's an Ugh Field: http://lesswrong.com/lw/21b/ugh_fields/. The prospect of having your body and mind slowly fall apart is appalling, and most people really really don't want to think about it, to the point of dismissing possible solutions.
Which reminds me, it's about time for another donation to SENS.
Sure they are, I debated enough to recognize that. I even debated with medical professionals and scientists to this effect. They think it's "unnatural" (whatever that means). For a short while there, my post had a negative score. They don't like to engage, but they are opposed.
Well, here's why I'm skeptical (or let's just say opposed if you prefer) - overpopulation is already a problem, and substantially lengthening life expectancy will only make that worse. Basically, I'm afraid we're closer to solving our medical problems than we are to solving our planet-supporting-our-population problems. If we solve the latter in tandem, then I'm on board.
Or are you only talking about quality-of-life improvements, rather than lengthening life expectancy? Assuming this is even possible, I think the problem with it would be the psychological toll of a death to the survivors - while always sad, the death of an elderly loved one is less jarring than the death of a loved one in their prime ("it was his time") - so keeping everyone in their prime right up until their death would eliminate a powerfully useful coping mechanism.
Yes, as a first step, I'm only talking about extending the high-quality-of-life period for everyone. And I know it is possible, because we're already at it and there is no magical barrier stopping us from doing this on a biological level. I also don't believe that "we shouldn't do it because it makes us less sad when dying people have wrinkles and white hair" is an ethically valid argument against this kind of research.
There are two viewpoints that make any further discussion pointless. One would be the belief in any sort of afterlife, and the other one is the conviction that human consciousness has at best a very limited intrinsic value and can hence be discarded without further consequence. If you don't hold one of these beliefs, I wager there is a high degree of probability that you basically agree with people like me that we have to do something and that things cannot should how they are now.
Of course, this kind of technology will over time lead to drastically longer lives as well. When it comes to aging, there is no way to do the quality thing without the quantity thing.
Overpopulation is not a problem in wealthy, industrial countries. These countries will always have advanced tech before everyone else. So, for example, if I were to live 200 years in Germany, producing maybe 0.8 children over the entire time, I'm not crowding up the countryside. Sure, I do require resources, as does everyone else, including some Bangladeshi guy who died at 35 because of some horrible tropical disease und who nevertheless multiplied by a factor of 20 over the same 200 years.
We need new and sustainable technologies to cope with both corner cases anyway. This idea that progress has to stop now is a horrible mistake. We left the realm of our fellow animal sisters and brothers to embark on a journey of knowledge and discovery. In the course of this endeavor, we became powerful individual minds capable of achieving pretty much anything. Well, we're halfway there now, we can't just stop suddenly, that would be the end of the race. We have to move all the way through to the other side.
So suppose you can keep old people healthy, strong, mentally sharp, etc. at what point do they get out of the way? 100 years? 110? 150? You must see that at some point the population becomes unsustainable if the old never die off.
Somehow it must be possible to talk about the extension of productive life without people trailing off into condescending statements about population control or throwing hissy fits about the drummed up ecological aspects of immortality as if this was the most pressing concern right now. First of all, we're not even talking about making people live longer, just keeping them in shape for longer. There is absolutely zero moral outrage to be had about this one, except maybe if you want to shout something about old people taking our jobs, pointlessly and morbidly arguing that without death, disability and general human misery the global economy would suffer.
Second, of course this kind of research eventually arrives at measures that prolong (productive) life, which gives traditional people even more to scream about. We will devour the earth! Never mind falling birth rates in industrial nations which would doubtlessly be the only countries experiencing those extended lifespans.
However, my argument is more basic than that. Because, you guessed it, I'm all for longevity research as well. It's a basic ethical appeal to not waste perfectly good minds to decay and oblivion. Conjuring up economic problems that may or may not be even remotely applicable to this type of future society seems callous and short-sighted to me.
What I don't get is why many people are so violently opposed to this. I'm not even talking about transhumanism or anything as controversial as that, just preventing "old" people from degenerating.
As a med student I saw so many people wasting away in retirement homes, many of them were not even that old. With advances in biotech, I hope we'll give my generation a much more active and empowered existence when we come into this age group.