10x? Financial independence is normally at least 20x, more like 30x.
> How is your nationality relevant to reading stats? If you don't want to, then just say that.
Sorry maybe I wasn't clear, but that's exactly what I meant. I won't dig into stats for the US because it's of no interest to me. That's why I mentioned I'm not from the US.
I know that for my country that's absolutely not the case and I'm pretty sure it's the same for most of the world.
> 10x? Financial independence is normally at least 20x, more like 30x.
You appear to be overlooking Social Security, which is a crucial source of income that all US workers pay into their entire careers. It's not just savings.
> I won't dig into stats for the US because it's of no interest to me.
Yet it's interesting enough to you to make baseless empirical claims about the US.
> I know that for my country that's absolutely not the case and I'm pretty sure it's the same for most of the world.
Since you're so adamant I had a quick search and it turns out I'm right.
>43.09% of American adults had no retirement savings
>23.15% of American adults had no (or negative) retirement savings even including the extended assets
> Since you're so adamant I had a quick search and it turns out I'm right.
No, you changed the subject. You said:
> You're telling me most retired Americans have more than hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings?
To which the answer is no, but you don't need a million dollars to retire.
Whereas your link is not about retired Americans, it's about UN-retired Americans: "Statistics are for households headed by adults aged 32-61 at the time of the survey".
I'm done with this conversation. Your games and lack of good faith interest are becoming very tedious to me.
Read the article. It's about people that will retire. Unless you're trying to be facetious and say they'll never retire, which I guess will be true for many.
> Read the article. It's about people that will retire.
Yes, and the point that everyone is trying to explain to you, which you refuse to acknowledge, is that in general, software developers in the US are doing fine. They don't need to "grind all the leetcode" and work for a BigCo. It's a choice not a financial mandate. Software developers, even outside of BigCos, are in the upper income brackets in the US.
I'm not saying that everyone in the US is doing fine as far as retirement is concerned, but the idea that software developers have to work for BigCos is absurd. I've never worked for a BigCo, and I'm doing fine.
Well now you're moving the goalpost. Your original comment mentioned hundreds of millions of Americans so it can't be only about software developers. That's why the focus changed to everyone.
Anyways, yes you have the choice of not working on big corps. My point is that it's not a real choice unless you want to accept all of the consequences of leaving all that money on the table. You have to accept the risk that you might be a few emergencies away from bankruptcy.
> yes you have the choice of not working on big corps.
Finally admitting the truth.
> You have to accept the risk that you might be a few emergencies away from bankruptcy.
Working for a BigCo doesn't magically protect you from emergencies. Accumulating $millions might protect you, but you don't just walk in the door of a BigCo and pick up your treasure chest. You have to work there for many years. In the meantime, you're subject to the same risks as everyone else. For example, lot of BigCos have been doing layoffs recently, which would put a big dent in the "for many years" plan. Also, if you suffer some kind of disability that prevents you from continuing to work, then you're screwed regardless.
Anyway, what makes you think you would be BigCo material? Not everyone is. The number of jobs is limited, and the competition is fierce. You might be able to get in the door by grinding leetcode, but once you're in the door you still need to make management happy in order to keep your job and win pay raises. The grind doesn't end.
God the amount of unnecessary hostility coming from you is absurd. From my original comment:
> So I agree with some other comments here. No it's not really a choice.
From the very beginning I said it's not really a choice, but I always acknowledged it. Whatever, your pedantry wins.
> Anyway, what makes you think you would be BigCo material?
I can't really know since I'm automatically excluded from it simply because of I don't live there (and I would never work with a visa, having a corporation ruling over my life). But it's very possible I wouldn't make the cut, or if I did I'd likely be another one writing blog posts like this one - assuming reality is how they portray it.
Technically I know I can hold my own, but that's not really what work is all about in my experience (barring few exceptions). Connections, ivy leagues, kissing ass, leetcode and other aspects that shouldn't matter are valued more than actually getting shit done.
But I'd sure as hell try because even though it's not a guarantee of protection, it's as close as we can get to it in a capitalist society. Money is, unfortunately, crucial.
>You appear to be overlooking Social Security, which is a crucial source of income that all US workers pay into their entire careers. It's not just savings.
I certainly am. I was taught as early as grade school (mid 00's) that Social Security would run out before I retire. I take that strongly to heart.
>Says you, but you apparently aspire to live and work here, so it's different enough.
Never said that. It's just where tech salaries are bigger.
>Have you checked North Korea?
What does this have to do with anything? Unless you're writing from North Korea, this is childish.
Apparently I hit a nerve and that was not my intention. My point was never specifically about the US but you keep insisting on it and have a bone to grind. That doesn't add to the conversation though.
> My point was never specifically about the US but you keep insisting on it and have a bone to grind.
You said: "I don't live in the US, but if I did I would grind all the leetcode (as insulting as I find them) for one single reason: I don't want to work forever." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37809983
How much do you think you need? I think the recommendation is something like 10x your current annual income.
> I'm not gonna dive into stats for that since I'm not an American
How is your nationality relevant to reading stats? If you don't want to, then just say that.